I have been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out exactly what to say to the acro community. we have a habit of flopping down on whatever mat is available and granted we're generally wearing clothing but usually bare shoulders, and of course bare hands and bare feet to bare shoulders or shins (most other places we'd be in contact with would have cloth in between)
I'm about to walk into a dance and I'm thinking about that, too.
I guess I'm thinking a whole lot about what constitutes extended contact and how are mats and bedding alike and dissimilar.
almost nobody is masking outside for acro or dance at this point.
As with the last outbreak, it should be a temporary problem. Worldwide vaccine production will go up by orders of magnitude within the next few months.
Short term, you could invest in easily-laundered mattress covers?
Current culture is ppl bring mats and nobody really thinks about whose mat is whose and you may be on this mat for a bit and then wander off over there and be spotting and now oh right lemme demo and now be on a different mat for a bit. Think more yoga mats than gym mats if outdoors. Indoors the mats are thicker and fuzzier.
But it's also the bare hands to bare shoulders and respiratory particles part.
And there's such a big difference between possible and probable and that's part of what i'm trying to get a handle on. Fortunately prevalence remains fairly low, so person risk* in all of this is still low but i'm expecting that to change in the near to medium future. And DC is one of the highest per capita locations for MPX, but that's also in part b/c DCHealth is on the ball re testing and outreach and we're much more urban.
*microcovid.org -- person risk: how likely is it that this person has something to share; activity risk: what is the risk level of this situation, and then multiply
I'm assuming that people who do acrobatics together for fun trust each other.
Why not just suggest to people that they check themselves for skin rashes before showing up? I haven't heard about asymptomatic monkeypox to date. (I'm sure our host will correct me if I'm wrong.) Wouldn't be perfect protection, but I would expect it to radically improve the odds at zero cost. It would only work in a community like that, where people both trust and depend on each other.
yeah I'm at this point thinking to remind people don't show up if you're ill and if you've got anything weird going on with exposed skin please don't have it be exposed skin.
Thing is there's the respiratory component and also that this can easily be mistaken for stuff like ingrown hairs or zits. but certainly not on the hands or soles of the feet.
I'm going to a weekend event this weekend and I am planning on having a towel that I will add if I'm going to be basing.
tried talking with an ID doc friend yesterday, but my attempts to figure out probability of various routes really ended up being 'f if we know.'
but yes, you're right, our jams are usually a dozen people or less, at which point if there's something someone might actually notice on themselves it's nowhere near as much of an issue.
and while there is some discussion as to whether transmission can be before lesions, that's kind of covered by other ways of feeling ill.
I pinged someone in a nearby community who will be going to an in-service on Wednesday and plans to get back to me after.
I'm not at the point of thinking this is yet a big issue, but I would prefer not to wait until it is. relatedly, I'm more than a little bit pissed at what I expect prevalence to go.
A big tangent on the shapes of the virus - yea I'm having a hard time seeing a 'brick' too. In Human anatomy when I teach about the endocrine system for example, all textbooks describe the thymus gland as 'butterfly shaped' but to me i think of it as a bow tie - not only in its shape but it sits nearly exactly where a bow tie does! Such better way for students to remember it! and texts also explain adrenal glands as 'pyramid shaped' where really, to me anyway, one does look that way, but the other is more like a crescent moon - again a much better way to get students to distinguish the right one from the left one. I find right vs left to be very important as i teach students in medical professions and when they complain about needing to know right vs left for the exams i remind them that in a few yrs when they are doing medical procedures, I want them to be doing it on the proper side of the body! :)
How should those of us who use communal laundries in our apartment buildings deal w/clothes washing if infected/not? Also, many things don’t get washed on hot or dried.
NYC DOH’s advice concerns only those who own machines, CDC tells you to work with local DOH (!)
I know this is PH, not virology, but every coop/condo/managing agent shouldn’t have to figure this out.
An issue with that is guidance re: standard detergent is that it comes with instructions to do a hot water wash & hot drying, which many folks don’t do, given colors & fabrics, and also a suggestion to add a 10% bleach solution, which has the same issues.
I’ve decided to add OxyClean sanitizer, from the EPA List Q, to cold water wash/air or cool dry loads, & use a mesh bag to hold everything, so I can bring it upstairs without spreading it on the laundry room tables to fold. OxyClean is the only product listed for soft surfaces.
General discussions of cleaning washer/dryer interiors, not pox related, assume it’s not needed because of the heat - again, an issue if you do cold. Standard disinfectant works, but has to sit 5-10 minutes, per EPA List Q. Regardless of temperature or virus, the soft seals need to be cleaned.
There’s an air purifier in the room because of COVID, not quite large enough. I’d recommend masks, regardless of what you’re doing re: COVID, because respiratory transmission occurs & if someone shakes out infected bedding… The virus lives a LONG time inside scabs.
Building management said it’s not an issue because it’s a gay STI… 66 families use the same machines & we’re in the epicenter.
Not specific to laundry, but this, from the Nigerian CDC, is excellent.
“Because orthopoxviruses are stable at ambient temperature when dried, laundering sheets and towels (and steam-cleaning upholstered surfaces) is necessary if those surfaces have been in contact with an MPXV case, particularly if in direct contact with lesions.
For laundry, wash the contaminated items separately with normal laundry soap and a minimum washing temperature of 60°C, followed by drying with hot air until completely dry. Operators should be aware that some domestic washers do not reach this threshold; additional hot water can be added directly to the drum in top-loading machines.
Because transmission to a healthcare worker via contaminated bedding was reported in a previous outbreak, operators should wear a mask and gloves while handling laundry and avoid shaking it out before washing to prevent environmental or self-contamination.”
"Dry your clean, wet laundry at the highest temperature allowed. Check item labels for instructions.
• Air-dry any items at home that cannot be dried in a machine.
• If you are in a laundromat or other shared laundry room, take your clean, dry laundry out of the dryer, put it directly in the clean bag and fold it at home.
• Limit your time in public laundry spaces. If possible, go home between washing and drying your laundry, or go outside to avoid close contact with others."
The highest temperature allowed for lots of what people own is low/cold. Even if the label says hot, that shortens the life of things and often shrinks them. That’s why adding sanitizer is a good idea for cold washes.
DOH is thinking only about killing the virus. If all you wear are jeans & cotton tees, it’s not an issue.
These are the realities of washing expensive colored cotton, silk, linen & wool clothing, high quality sheets, synthetics, down comforters/ coats, wool blankets, etc.
I have been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out exactly what to say to the acro community. we have a habit of flopping down on whatever mat is available and granted we're generally wearing clothing but usually bare shoulders, and of course bare hands and bare feet to bare shoulders or shins (most other places we'd be in contact with would have cloth in between)
I'm about to walk into a dance and I'm thinking about that, too.
I guess I'm thinking a whole lot about what constitutes extended contact and how are mats and bedding alike and dissimilar.
almost nobody is masking outside for acro or dance at this point.
As with the last outbreak, it should be a temporary problem. Worldwide vaccine production will go up by orders of magnitude within the next few months.
Short term, you could invest in easily-laundered mattress covers?
Current culture is ppl bring mats and nobody really thinks about whose mat is whose and you may be on this mat for a bit and then wander off over there and be spotting and now oh right lemme demo and now be on a different mat for a bit. Think more yoga mats than gym mats if outdoors. Indoors the mats are thicker and fuzzier.
But it's also the bare hands to bare shoulders and respiratory particles part.
And there's such a big difference between possible and probable and that's part of what i'm trying to get a handle on. Fortunately prevalence remains fairly low, so person risk* in all of this is still low but i'm expecting that to change in the near to medium future. And DC is one of the highest per capita locations for MPX, but that's also in part b/c DCHealth is on the ball re testing and outreach and we're much more urban.
*microcovid.org -- person risk: how likely is it that this person has something to share; activity risk: what is the risk level of this situation, and then multiply
I'm assuming that people who do acrobatics together for fun trust each other.
Why not just suggest to people that they check themselves for skin rashes before showing up? I haven't heard about asymptomatic monkeypox to date. (I'm sure our host will correct me if I'm wrong.) Wouldn't be perfect protection, but I would expect it to radically improve the odds at zero cost. It would only work in a community like that, where people both trust and depend on each other.
yeah I'm at this point thinking to remind people don't show up if you're ill and if you've got anything weird going on with exposed skin please don't have it be exposed skin.
Thing is there's the respiratory component and also that this can easily be mistaken for stuff like ingrown hairs or zits. but certainly not on the hands or soles of the feet.
I'm going to a weekend event this weekend and I am planning on having a towel that I will add if I'm going to be basing.
tried talking with an ID doc friend yesterday, but my attempts to figure out probability of various routes really ended up being 'f if we know.'
but yes, you're right, our jams are usually a dozen people or less, at which point if there's something someone might actually notice on themselves it's nowhere near as much of an issue.
and while there is some discussion as to whether transmission can be before lesions, that's kind of covered by other ways of feeling ill.
I pinged someone in a nearby community who will be going to an in-service on Wednesday and plans to get back to me after.
I'm not at the point of thinking this is yet a big issue, but I would prefer not to wait until it is. relatedly, I'm more than a little bit pissed at what I expect prevalence to go.
A big tangent on the shapes of the virus - yea I'm having a hard time seeing a 'brick' too. In Human anatomy when I teach about the endocrine system for example, all textbooks describe the thymus gland as 'butterfly shaped' but to me i think of it as a bow tie - not only in its shape but it sits nearly exactly where a bow tie does! Such better way for students to remember it! and texts also explain adrenal glands as 'pyramid shaped' where really, to me anyway, one does look that way, but the other is more like a crescent moon - again a much better way to get students to distinguish the right one from the left one. I find right vs left to be very important as i teach students in medical professions and when they complain about needing to know right vs left for the exams i remind them that in a few yrs when they are doing medical procedures, I want them to be doing it on the proper side of the body! :)
I wonder how protected I am from monkeypox. I was in the last cohort to be vaccinated, back in the 1960s, with the old-school Vaccinia inoculation.
Hmm ...
https://www.health.com/news/does-smallpox-vaccine-protect-against-monkeypox
That says some protection, but not 100%, which fails to shock me.
How should those of us who use communal laundries in our apartment buildings deal w/clothes washing if infected/not? Also, many things don’t get washed on hot or dried.
NYC DOH’s advice concerns only those who own machines, CDC tells you to work with local DOH (!)
I know this is PH, not virology, but every coop/condo/managing agent shouldn’t have to figure this out.
Thanks!
Actually, the CDC says here to just use regular detergent. They specifically say that disinfectants are not needed.
https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/specific-settings/home-disinfection.html
Section on laundry.
This paper I randomly found in my first search also says that poxviruses are vulnerable to normal detergents:
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-7643-7557-7_19
I suspect that washed clothing isn't a significant threat.
Thanks. I’ve seen such references.
An issue with that is guidance re: standard detergent is that it comes with instructions to do a hot water wash & hot drying, which many folks don’t do, given colors & fabrics, and also a suggestion to add a 10% bleach solution, which has the same issues.
I’ve decided to add OxyClean sanitizer, from the EPA List Q, to cold water wash/air or cool dry loads, & use a mesh bag to hold everything, so I can bring it upstairs without spreading it on the laundry room tables to fold. OxyClean is the only product listed for soft surfaces.
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/disinfectants-emerging-viral-pathogens-evps-list-q
General discussions of cleaning washer/dryer interiors, not pox related, assume it’s not needed because of the heat - again, an issue if you do cold. Standard disinfectant works, but has to sit 5-10 minutes, per EPA List Q. Regardless of temperature or virus, the soft seals need to be cleaned.
There’s an air purifier in the room because of COVID, not quite large enough. I’d recommend masks, regardless of what you’re doing re: COVID, because respiratory transmission occurs & if someone shakes out infected bedding… The virus lives a LONG time inside scabs.
Building management said it’s not an issue because it’s a gay STI… 66 families use the same machines & we’re in the epicenter.
Not specific to laundry, but this, from the Nigerian CDC, is excellent.
https://ncdc.gov.ng/themes/common/docs/protocols/96_1577798337.pdf
Thanks again!
“Because orthopoxviruses are stable at ambient temperature when dried, laundering sheets and towels (and steam-cleaning upholstered surfaces) is necessary if those surfaces have been in contact with an MPXV case, particularly if in direct contact with lesions.
For laundry, wash the contaminated items separately with normal laundry soap and a minimum washing temperature of 60°C, followed by drying with hot air until completely dry. Operators should be aware that some domestic washers do not reach this threshold; additional hot water can be added directly to the drum in top-loading machines.
Because transmission to a healthcare worker via contaminated bedding was reported in a previous outbreak, operators should wear a mask and gloves while handling laundry and avoid shaking it out before washing to prevent environmental or self-contamination.”
https://ncceh.ca/content/blog/monkeypox-personal-service-establishments
New York City:
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/monkeypox/laundry-guidance.pdf
"Dry your clean, wet laundry at the highest temperature allowed. Check item labels for instructions.
• Air-dry any items at home that cannot be dried in a machine.
• If you are in a laundromat or other shared laundry room, take your clean, dry laundry out of the dryer, put it directly in the clean bag and fold it at home.
• Limit your time in public laundry spaces. If possible, go home between washing and drying your laundry, or go outside to avoid close contact with others."
The highest temperature allowed for lots of what people own is low/cold. Even if the label says hot, that shortens the life of things and often shrinks them. That’s why adding sanitizer is a good idea for cold washes.
DOH is thinking only about killing the virus. If all you wear are jeans & cotton tees, it’s not an issue.
These are the realities of washing expensive colored cotton, silk, linen & wool clothing, high quality sheets, synthetics, down comforters/ coats, wool blankets, etc.
MPX is endemic in Nigeria. The Nigerian CDC recommends that laundry may be washed with hot water, detergent and diluted sodium hypochlorite solution.
Sanitizers for laundry include: diluted bleach, OXYClean, Dettol.
https://ncdc.gov.ng/themes/common/docs/protocols/96_1577798337.pdf